Tuesday, November 16, 2010

Not waivering over Vick

I'm a bit of an animal enthusiast - I'm a cat owner and long-time dog lover (as my mom can attest to since I spent the majority of my childhood begging for a dog, despite the fact that the rest of my family is allergic to them) and after watching Food Inc recently I have been dabbling with the idea of just going total vegetarian. So my protest of Michael Vick this season has been to avoid him in any and all fantasy leagues even though he is probably THE acquisition of the season. I know, not much of a protest, but hey, it's a way of saying what this guy did to dogs was not okay in my book...so of course this makes his monumental performance last night a bit of a sticky wicket. Sure, I'd love to have his points and kudos to Vick for coming back to the league and showing what an incredible athlete he is. But I maintain that I'd rather lose a thousand times to his massive fantasy points and maintain my Vick protest. (Update: Wow. You guys are getting personal and in some cases downright rude here in the comments section. While I stand by my opinions, which frankly many of you seem to be reading too little or too much into, I'm now wishing I had never said anything about Vick at all. If you're offended by what I've said, stop coming to the blog. If you're just looking for good fantasy football advice, then by all means, read on. But don't make this more than what it is.)

Now I'll get down off my high horse and bring you today's links:

I'll be back tomorrow with more waiver advice and the early start/sit advice. Don't forget we've got another Thursday Night Football game this week (Bears at Dolphins)!

48 comments:

Bill said...

Will you also be protesting Donte Stallworth if/when he becomes fantasy-relevant?

@emceeperiod said...

Bill is an idiot for many reasons, but here are 3.
1. Stallworth was and never will be fantasy relevant.
2. Getting drunk is a choice and can be a bad one, but when he went out driving I don't think he had the intention of killing anyone.
3. Vick didn't accidentally kill dogs. He drowned them and electrocuted them when they lost.

I get the feeling that Vick would still be fighting dogs today if he didn't get caught. He stopped because he got caught, not because he thinks it's wrong or has any compassion for any being on this earth besides himself.

LestersLegends said...

Thanks for the link Librarian.

I respect your stance on Vick. I do own him in one league, which he helped me win, but I lost in another to him that I was the runaway winner before he decided to put on that show.

I agree with emcee that Vick wouldn't have changed if he hand't been caught, but I will say he's taking his craft much more serious these days. Of course he should have been doing that all along, but it's frightening to see how good he can be. If only he hadn't wasted all of those years.

Hopefully you don't have to face Vick anymore this season.

Bill said...

@emceeperiod: You're entitled to your opinion (although I'd argue that Stallworth was certainly relevant when he was with the Eagles (and not injured)). I'm glad you "get the feeling" Vick would still be fighting dogs today. That's pretty much all the evidence I need to hear.

But really: where's the protesting of Big Ben? If anything, the national consensus was that a 6-game suspension would be way too severe for his actions. Is it better to be a drunk misogynist than a dog fighter? Is it better to hit a woman or a dog?

If Ben goes on to have a flawless career as an upstanding human being and QB, won't his story be about redemption and battling personal demons (the kind that tell you drink and fondle women in a bathroom)? Why should Vick's story be so different?

just a man said...

regardless of what he would be doing or not. he was found guilty of something, and he went to jail. he paid his debt to society.

i can understand you not liking the guy because of his actions, but to make calls about this man's compassion is presumptuous at best.

you dont know what revelations came to him sitting in that jail cell. make judgments about your own life, and leave the qb commentary to what they do on the field.

Dan said...

I, too, would rather lose than root for Vick. His actions were beyond disgusting. @just-a-man, I think we have every right to judge nfl players on their off-field actions.

Fantasy Football Librarian said...

Interesting posts. Should've known this would elicit comments. Personally I'm not interested in comparing various players in terms of what they have or haven't done off the field - I'm just picking my battles here.

My protest is a protest against the way Vick treated animals in the past; I do hope he's full of compassion and respect now and I'm sure he's a changed man in many ways. Call it a character flaw but I just can't move on from what he did quite so quickly. I fully recognize this might not be fair of me and give major credit to those who can...but it just seems that in general we're quick to forget when someone is a winner on the field.

Glad we don't all agree; wouldn't make for a very interesting world if we did, right?

Anonymous said...

Leave it to a broad to use her fantasy football team as a form of protest and then twist her own clit with self-satisfaction in reiterating her utterly bogus, self-righteous point of view after an amazing performance by Vick.

davinci78 said...

What a man, posting anonymously.

William said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
William said...

To counter your protest I am not going to pick the dog when I play Monopoly this Christmas.

I think both of these "protests" will be equally effective.

DogLover said...

lol @ protesting vick by not playing him. wish you were in my league

Jim said...

I am a dog owner/lover and I have been all my life. Was I morally wrong to pick up Vick?

I must say that this is sad/pathetic post by FFL.

You write a blog about a game (fantasy football) that is based on a game (football) and you pretend that your waiver wire pickups represent some kind warped morality?

You watched a movie and didn't pickup a player in a FANTASY football league and then you made sure everyone knew it by writing it on a blog?

This is a disgrace to those of us who are serious about animal rights.

Alex said...

what Vick did was cruel and inhumane, but they are still just animals - he suffered more than enough to make up for it. what happens when the barn cats multiply too quickly? you throw em in a bag in the creek... its just animals people, relax they dont get to vote or drive or marry, and like others have said, other actions (by NFL players or men in general) could be considered far worse yet they get away with it, or are forgiven much easier.

Anonymous said...

I agree with you and will never own Vick in any league. I extened that to all Eagles. I don't think my dogs would forgive me if i owned Vick. Excellent blog and stand by your morals.

jonathanjacobsen1111 said...

Just wanted to say, I appreciate your blog - it has helped me to numerous wins in all of my fantasy leagues.
To counterbalance some of the asinine, rude and misogynistic posts that have been put here I wanted to say that I actually am doing the same thing you are - protesting Michael Vick.
Personally I could care less whether no one agrees with my stance, I am not doing so to impress or even sway their opinions. Just wanted you to know that you're not alone.
What sucks worse is I just lost to a team with him on it...I was 25 points up and had David Akers still to go...scored 12 for me...I lost in the first half.
Food Inc. caused my wife and I to buy only meat and poultry from local farms...Great Movie.

William said...

"stand by your morals"

should be pretty easy now. Vick has been picked up in most leagues.

EvanrudE said...

Ignore the haters. You are right about Vick. You rock on the ff advice so keep it up.

Mike said...

Fellas try showing showing some tact ... lobbing grenades and verbal insults when someone is taking a personal stance within THEIR blog is rather tasteless ... chances are you wore out your welcome posting similar spiteful comments elsewhere ... with that said, go back to PFT and bash Florio with your tail between your legs ...

zerodev said...

I have nothing against a protest like this, but at some point Vick has got to be forgiven, no? I mean, put it this way: if his resurgence is a way to spread awareness about animal cruelty, would you still protest him?

Dinotech said...

Hi Librarian.

I respect your stance as well even though I don't agree with it. In today's rehabilitation world where convicts are put into programs to make them useful for society, I find Vick's return inspiring because he has shown the world he has matured and developed into a complete player.

I didn't like his initial attitude about the same situation, and I think both Vick and Tiger will rise above their transgressions and become better men because of it.

I am an animal lover and I don't condone fighting any animal for sport. If someone wants to protest Vick and not use him in their league, that is fine. I'll pick him up and use him every week because he is good at what he does not who he is (which is changing as I stated above).

It's interesting to note that we can forgive certain people in our society but cannot forgive others. God said that we are to forgive everyone (apologies to those who don't believe). I believe in God and so I forgive; but I don't forget and if Vick fails again outside of football, I doubt he will play again.

As long as he plays, I'll have him earn me lots of fantasy points in hopes to move up in my league.

Lastly, I would like to address those people who post derogatory comments. If you don't wish to be respectful, please don't post at all. It is very sad that we have to berate people for having an opinion where this is the one, true freedom of our country. Agree to disagree agreeably.

Dinotech said...

@emceeperiod

Vick didn't accidentally kill dogs. He drowned them and electrocuted them when they lost.

Vick was involved but unless you have a link to a resource that said he did that you shouldn't post it.

We know from the investigation that Vick had dog fights over at his house, but I never heard that he did any of the killing.

The whole situation is horrible, but if you don't have something to back your statement, shouldn't post it.

Dinotech said...

Why should Vick's story be so different?

Amen Bill

Dinotech said...

but it just seems that in general we're quick to forget when someone is a winner on the field.

Oh so negatory! Every opportunity, the broadcasters and media reporters are quick to remind us of what he did and how he paid his debt to society.

Again, you said you can't compare a player to another in terms of behavior but you have to because they are in the same league. NFL for all intents and purposes is just a league similar to the leagues your son's and daughter's play in.

NFL is just bigger because of the business aspect of it. So the matter of Ben and Vick have repercussions but they are commodities and people want their stars to perform...at lease some people do.

Plaxico Burress will never set foot on a field until 2011 if and only if he earns that right. So, its not like every NFL player is getting a light sentence.

They pay the price for their actions, given a second chance (sometimes third chance...see Pacman Jones).

If they continue in their behavior, they won't be playing NFL. Until Vick, Ben, or any other fantasy stud stops playing, I put him in my lineup.

Anonymous said...

Sounds like some Vick owners are having trouble sleeping at night. A little sensitive are we?

Anonymous said...

Had you taken a stand against all the violent offenders, spousal abusers, drunk drivers, and probable rapists Ms. Librarian you may not have been able to field a team at all.

I am surprised and disappointed that the killing of dogs apparently is more outrageous than rape to you and the public at large. And to those who say "Big Ben" had no charges filed against him... you're ignorant. It does not pass the smell test.

Vick did an awful thing. He has served his time. Feel free to subject him to your bizarre concept of a moral stand. I call it double jeopardy. I don't encourage the re-punishment of any criminal, even in this microscopically petty manner.

I have a dog and treat him well. I also often eat the tortured flesh of bovines and birds. I feel far more concerned that we continue to factory farm in a nearly inescapable system (I cannot afford to buy organic all the time). We as a society have a fit when one guy kills a hundred animals... because why? Names and cuteness. If Vick had been fighting pigs would we even be talking about this?

If you hate what Vick did, then put down the hamburger, and source every product in your house to determine if it has an animal byproduct. Then come back to talk about how you despise the torture of animals. Protesting Vick is like supporting Mother's Day. Easy. Not a stand at all.

Challenge yourself. Find out if Vick is contrite, and deserves forgiveness.

Anonymous said...

@Dinotech

While you're certainly not the worst commenter, the rest are too pathetic to bother rebutting.

Vick originally said that he only helped dispose of the dogs, not kill them. Naturally he failed a polygraph and then admitted taking part in the actual hanging of the dogs. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3718304)

So, Vick enjoys torturing and has no problem killing them when they don't perform. Sounds healthy.

The America Psychiatric Association includes among the criteria for Conduct Disorder, aggression towards animals (http://www.aafp.org/afp/2001/0415/p1579.html)

The FBI has long linked animal abuse with animal abuse:(http://books.google.com/books?id=2vh2iekHcn4C&lpg=PP1&ots=8EtwWFDLKv&dq=The%20link%20between%20animal%20abuse%20and%20human%20violence%20%20By%20Andrew%20Linzey&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false).

Just what kind of people do you think were attending these dog fights? Soccer moms? Nuns? These aren't good people by any standard.
Vick is that type of person, and not just by association.

You can say he's done the time and that the system has rehabilitated him. I personally think it's a bunch of crap. Going to jail for a one time mistake is one thing, but doing it since 2001 (http://hamptonroads.com/2009/07/timeline-michael-vick-dogfighting-case) is a behavior pattern that shows a disturbing lack of remorse or conscience. It's a mind set. And that isn't something you just switch off.

Also, a persons performance on the field has zero to do with his character. How far and fast he can throw a ball means nothing. If winning a FF league means more to you than moral principles then it makes me wonder what else you'd sacrifice.

@emceeperiod said...

Retorts:

@Bill: I'm not trying to convince you of anything. He doesn't seem apologetic to me. Obviously I can't, nor can anyone, prove that he'd still be killing dogs if he got caught so I don't know what type of "proof" you're expecting. Big Ben IS an asshole and if this post was about him I'd say more, but alas, it's about Vick so I'm not going to go off on Ben. Neither misogyny nor dog killing are "better" than the other so you might want to stop thinking in those terms.

@emceeperiod said...

@just a man: "you dont know what revelations came to him sitting in that jail cell. make judgments about your own life, and leave the qb commentary to what they do on the field." Well, since revelations in jail can change a man, we should just let out all the murders and rapists that tell us that they've had "revelations". Ridiculous logic. Also I agree with the post below yours. Fans ultimately pay the bills. We watch the TV and we pay for the tickets to make these athletes rich. This gives me the right to judge them however I want. They are my employees in a very very small way. Though I cannot fire them, I can call the owner an idiot, write letters, bring signs to games, etc that express my opinions. If you think these expressions don't affect the team owners' opinions and decisions, you are mistaken. They stop selling tickets and they make changes.

@emceeperiod said...

@anonymous, William, DogLover and Jim: This is less of a protest by fflibrarian than it is an affirmation of her own morality, morality which you clearly don't have. And this protest by FFLibrarian may be small, but guess who was affected by it? YOU! Bill, you should rip on these guys. They all sound like Big Ben to me. Hella misogynistic. And Jim, talk about a hypocrite. You expect every person to fly to Philly and protest in front of the stadium? FFlibrarian is protesting in her own way and who are you to judge how someone protests against immoral acts? If I give a dollar to a bum and you give him a hundred dollars are you gonna tell me to fuck off because I'm doing so little? Unbelievable self-rightousness and hubris.

@emceeperiod said...

@Alex: "They are just animals, relax people." Well shit, might as well just wipe out all animals then. Fuck'em. Right? Why don't you read this article by Plaschke. Actually EVERYONE should read this article. Then come back and post what you've learned, or what new emotions you've experienced besides ignorance:

http://lat.ms/9KOcZx

@zerodev: Interesting take. The viscous nature of his crimes though, they are sociopathic. If there were a fence and on one side was Donte Stallworth and Big Ben, and on the other side were Ted Bundy and Charles Manson, I think Vick would be on the Manson side of that fence.

@DinoTech: The whole "God wants you to forgive everyone" just doesn't work for me, personally. See above. Why don't we just forgive all psychopaths then? Also, try googling "Vick killed dogs" and there's a ton of news articles that will show you he did. Here's the title of one, "Feds: Vick Personally Killed 7 Dogs By Hanging, Drowning" Can I post that now? I encourage you to read the article to which I referred earlier, here it is again:

http://lat.ms/9KOcZx

@anonymous (the post above mine): I second everything you've said. And again encourage all commenters to read the article in the link I've posted above.

@emceeperiod said...

Oh, btw, sorry for swearing. I didn't tell anyone to F off though, I was speculatively quoting what I felt other people were thinking/saying by reading between the lines.

Jim said...

@emc

I like how I got grouped together with people who clearly disrespect women; classy emc.

I guess I have seen people say worse things on message boards. Claiming someone doesn't have morality after grouping that person with others is pretty low.

I think you sound judgmental but I doubt you are a women hater or lack a moral compass.

Obviously, the Librarian can, and should, do what she wants to "protest" the horrible actions of Vick. I read her post and it sounded to me like a self-glorification of a menial action.

I could be wrong.

@librarian

I am sorry if I offended you. I was just reacting to what I initially perceived as unfounded self-righteousness.

Anonymous said...

It's has to be a lot of weight carrying hate for all people who've wronged others.
Even if you use selective and rigid methods for choosing your bad guys, you are investing effort that could be placed into something worthwhile into a person you believe is worthless.
If you want to make a difference about what Vick did, then do something about it.
There's hundreds, if not thousands of places that could use your time to prevent the next Vick from destroying animals.
However, telling a bunch of knucklehead fantasy guys(like me) what you think is the equivalent of doing less than nothing.
Maybe you are out there making change, if so, that's great.
If not, try building a bridge between what you say and what you do.

@emceeperiod said...

@Bill: If you read more closely, I didn't group you in with them, I said that you should object to their misogyny. I was making you out to being the good guy. I was urging you to respond to their misogyny, not grouping you in with them.

"Bill, you should rip on these guys. They all sound like Big Ben to me. Hella misogynistic."

zerodev said...

@emceeperiod: true, that kind of violence towards animals shows a sociopathic tendency, but most of us are not psychologists nor have we spent time with Vick himself. Vick very well may still harbor such tendencies, or he may very well be fully rehabilitated. The fact of the matter is his crime does not merit a lifelong punishment from others. I do not condone his crimes in any way, but I would like to think that a person can repent and change.

My main point was that Vick's actions, while cruel and brutal, could end up helping a lot more animals than he hurt because he is spreading awareness about animal cruelty. Is there a better triumph for PETA, really, than to have such a high-profile person repent from abusing animals and end up helping in a big way?

I have been a bit of a Vick apologist since he rejoined the NFL, but I believe in second chances and forgiveness. Hopefully those who revile him can find some forgiveness too.

Ivar Anderson said...

Seems to me that Sara has the right to post her feelings/stance/opinion on HER blog. If you don't agree, there is no reason to toss out derisive insults or scornful comments. Move on with your outrage, perhaps put forth your opinion, but no need to get personal, on either side. I am all for spirited debate, but this got ugly quick.

Hermodorus said...

Haterz to the back.

Go B3@STM0D3 or go home.

FFLibrarian rox. Thanks for your work.

Dinotech said...

If winning a FF league means more to you than moral principles then it makes me wonder what else you'd sacrifice.

First, I play FF because I like football. Vick gives me the best opportunity to win at the game.

It does not mean that my moral principle is less because of it. The statement that I read from your post: Vick is a criminal so you MUST avoid talking to him, using him in FF, and just don't converse with him whatsoever, is absurd.

I guess the reporters, the entire Eagles team, and anyone else who associates with Vick are morally inept.

No, this has nothing to do with a moral stance and has everything to do with starting one of the best athletes in the NFL.

As for my issue on forgiveness, it has nothing to do with just forgiving someone and allowing them to continue on with their lives; each person has to be accountable and suffer the consequences of their actions.

Vick paid his debt, although he should have paid more. Now he is on the field and is playing much better.

@LesterLegend stated that "If only he hadn't wasted all of those years." I looked at his prior stats and he never had games like he has now. He's a changed person on many fronts.

@Bill I like Bill's comments on why Ben's circumstances better or worse than Vick's. We all want to move on from our past and do better. For those that don't, they walk the cycle of jail sentences. For those that do, play in the NFL and display greatness for which they are known.

I want my FF to benefit from that greatness. I want Vick, Ben, and others to succeed in life and on the football field because I enjoy watching the game.

Character is what you are in the dark. A quote that I found which summarizes being accountable.

Dinotech said...

Just A Man - you dont know what revelations came to him sitting in that jail cell. make judgments about your own life, and leave the qb commentary to what they do on the field.

I totally agree with this. You cannot know the depths of Vick, what has transpired during that 18 months. I can see the change in his ability, in his approach to the game. I can't see what he does after that nor could I speculate.

Bill stated where's the same thought process for Ben? What about other players who have fallen from grace. It is amazing at the large bias for one player versus a host of others that deserve the same scrutiny.

Dinotech said...

but it just seems that in general we're quick to forget when someone is a winner on the field.

We never forget when OJ is discussed in terms of a great RB.

We will never forget when Ben is talked about as a great QB

We will never forget when Vick is mentioned as one of the best players in the NFL. Had it not been for his desire to fight dogs, he would have been in the NFL Top 100 players.

No, Ms Librarian we will never forget, but we should ALWAYS forgive.

Dinotech said...

if his resurgence is a way to spread awareness about animal cruelty, would you still protest him?

ZeroDev, nicely put. I hope that Vick has crossed that bridge and is ready to begin that necessary healing process.

Team said...

Sarah, if you become a vegan, will you remove meat from your son when he gets to the age of eating solids? He will need the protein.

Dinotech said...

You can say he's done the time and that the system has rehabilitated him. I personally think it's a bunch of crap.

Going to jail for a one time mistake is one thing, but doing it since 2001 (http://hamptonroads.com/2009/07/timeline-michael-vick-dogfighting-case) is a behavior pattern that shows a disturbing lack of remorse or conscience. It's a mind set. And that isn't something you just switch off.

Well, he evidently switched it off because what I saw on that field was a person who can not only play but be a leader as well. While this doesn't have anything to do with his off the field behavior, it is a sign in the positive direction. He is being watched by every reporter for his actions; if he even thinks about fighting dogs again he is done in the NFL and he will not be able to escape hard time.

You think it's a bunch of crap, and that is your choice. Don't tell me that I'm immoral because I believe otherwise. It's amazing at the assumption you take because I happen to have Vick on my fantasy football team.

@emceeperiod said...

@DinoTech: I'm sure you'd have the same stance if his crime wasn't dog fighting, but was raping your mother, sister, wife, or girlfriend. What if that was the case, that Vick raped YOUR wife? Let's say he was rich and had good lawyers, a real stretch eh? Lets say he got 5 years and probation for raping your wife? You would forgive him and pick him on your fantasy team? Not only that, but defend him against those of us who protest? Would you say "I don't know what kind of revelations he's had in jail" and forgive him after he'd raped your wife? I don't think so. And even if you were holier than thou and COULD forgive him after that, you'd want to be god damn sure that he had that revelation in jail, not say "he might have". This is obviously an exaggeration, but not by much to many animal/dog lovers. Did you end up reading the article I linked to?

On a personal note, I can't help but think that many of the people defending Vick feel guilty about something they've done in their own lives and are defending themselves, and this is making them feel better about what they're guilty of in some small way. Disregard this in reference to the discussion though.

Dinotech said...

I'm sure you'd have the same stance if his crime wasn't dog fighting, but was raping your mother, sister, wife, or girlfriend. What if that was the case, that Vick raped YOUR wife?

Wow. Now we are getting into the what if scenarios to justify how I would react and if I would react the same.

First, I don't answer what if situations because I serve a risen Savior in Christ. Each situation would have to be looked at differently, but the end result is to forgive and help those who want to be helped.

Secondly, yes, I do forgive of all transgressions but I never forget.

Thirdly, I protect my family in any way I can including terminating a life if it comes to that. I rely on the Holy Spirit to help me determine my action at the time.

You would forgive him and pick him on your fantasy team?

Well, he wouldn't be playing football if he committed that type of crime as you described (and I doubt Goodell would let him back in the NFL since there have been issues with sexual harassment of reporters as recent as a year ago). If he was allowed, I don't know if any team would have him as a player. Here's a good question to ask: If OJ was physically able to play football how many teams would want him?

Not only that, but defend him against those of us who protest?

I never defended Vick at all, I just don't agree with the post that Ms Librarian posted. I never once defended him at all only to say that he did his time, I am willing to forgive as I do see the change in him on the field and with his players.

What he did was uncalled for and if he does have a mindset to continue the behavior I won't have a choice to start him in FF; he won't be playing.

I can't help but think that many of the people defending Vick feel guilty about something they've done in their own lives and are defending themselves, and this is making them feel better about what they're guilty of in some small way

@emceeperiod You make a lot of assumptions for a conversation about starting or not starting Vick in FF. You have no clue of what people are thinking, what they feel, or what they've done. This isn't making me feel any better, but it is something I am passionate about: forgiving others and being able to move past the pain. It is a gift and requires an abundance mentality (as Stephen Covey would say).

You can continue with any scenario you wish; I have the ability and resources to deal with each scenario that is presented to me. Sometimes I will pursue legal action, sometimes I will be the one delivering the consequence.

Either way, to present what if scenarios to conversations about whether or not Vick is worthy to start in FF. Personally, I don't see not starting Vick as a good protest. If you don't buy anything related to Vick that would be the better protest. Notice he doesn't have any endorsements. I doubt he would unless it happened to do with the sanctity and safety of animals (if he has "switched off" his mindset).

@emceeperiod if you wish to continue the conversation, lets do it through Gmail. I don't want to use Librarians wonderful blog for discussion.

I haven't read the article but I will.

Bill said...

It has been interesting to read the follow-up comments to this post, and I'm glad the author of the blog chimed in to explain her stance a bit more.

I know the author has a right to "pick her battles," but I find it hypocritical how most anti-Vick folks decide to take a moral stand against his actions and more or less ignore other players' conduct toward other human beings. I'm a dog owner, and I love my dog, but I think it's ridiculous to protest Vick (in real life or in fantasy) while also giving pre-season advice to draft Roethlisberger as a backup QB so your team will have the luxury of 2 above-average QBs once he returns from his suspension. Ben received his suspension because of a pattern of personal conduct, too. Why is his conduct less repugnant than Vick's?

I'm all for the redemption angles of the Vick and Roethlisberger stories. I just think that some people believe less in rehabilitation than others. For example, there's a significant divide in the country about whether substance abusers should receive punishment, rehabilitation, or a combination of the two. More conservative folks tend to be pro-punishment (and I'd argue, anti-Vick).

Enough of this chatter out of me: I'm ready for Week 11 to begin tonight!

Dinotech said...

More conservative folks tend to be pro-punishment (and I'd argue, anti-Vick).

Not this conservative. I'm for suffering the consequence of one's actions, but I'm not for exacting punishment in a threatening way.

I, too, want to see great redemption stories: Vick, Tiger, Ben et. al. So I pray for those who can't seem to forgive.

Thanks for the post Bill